Harold Feltcher

Lives and workisn Portland Oregon. Currently a proffesor of art.  Has an exibiton up at white colums in new york, recently reviewed in village voice.

Sam Gould

Red 76.

Ben Cannon

Recently elected state representative, board of directors for Portland Bus project and a former road scholar.

Thank for coming.

Thankful to Pica for sponsoring this project, it has been a complicated project to put together.  I am an artist that has Been interested in history and cultural memory. This project brings together a series of concerns including relations between countries, Project began around the invasion of the Iraq. In Europe there is a lot of discussion on the intergration of east.  This does not happen here.  We continue to talk about latin America as a myth.  History of Panamericanism, more contemporary understanding of Panamericanism known as the good neighbour policy, More than anything I feel that Latin Aamerica has been largely absent since Novemeber 11.  Incidentially this project is taking place at a time when Latin American is again being looked at.  Utopian nomadic road trip. 

We are here now and I am delighted to hear more.  Felt it was very important to come to Portland.  Crisis of liberal thinking and yet we find certin apathy from people who position themselves as liberal. Wanted to discuss portalnd’s liberal history

The hopes of each of these discussion is to be productive and move beyond the articulation of the dilemmas.

We did the same thing in Vancouver and we had a wonderful discussion about realestate. 

Attempt to prevent

What do you think from your perspective living in a city in Portland.  Do you percive an apathy towards political issues.

BS: I will start with a statistics.  # of amount of people who are not registered to vote with in the youth group.  35% of those who are registered to vote cast ballots in the recent election.  Although portalnd is a bastion of liberal thought it remains apathetic like the rest of the country.

MID:

Bur: I think that the mail in ballot is not positive there is something positive about the communal effort. Mail in ballot turns the election into a theoretical problem

MID:

BS:I think what you are expressing is the sadness of loss of communal ritual/process. Family Community mail in ballot parties.

P: what encourages people to participate?

BS: Values of what someone is taught in their formative years.. Ethos the imporatnace of taking care of each other is eroding. The bonds that made it possible to build this scoity are no longer present. 

Question: How does voter turn out comapair to Beaverton?

BS: low – as you point out it is densly populated and diverse.

Q: When you’re in an area that is generally homogenous in voting for a particular party people begin to vote less. 

Bs: if you feel that it’s tooth and nail you get the attitde that everyt vote counts.

Bur: I think that is something that needs to be pushed across if everyone has the feeling – then you’re going to be screwed.  We have a comunial obligation that is being eroded, maybe it can be argued that it never existed, but I think you should find direct correlation between – hey my neighbour is away and it looks like someone is snooping around their house maybe I should look at it and the

Q: Venezula is a very participatory democracy. A whole ethos of caring, of having a sense of what I do has an effect on others and what they do affects me.  I get excited by the level of participation – because the stakes are high.

Bur: I carry the constution in my pocket

Bur: but doesn’t it bother you that no one notices that the stakes are high here. People are killed as a result of our apathy.

Q : I think that we’re not asking the right questions yet.  Passive sense of cultural despondency.  Coming from many areas, I don’t experience the negative impacts – its all theoretical the arguments are academic.  You can creat incentives all you want but the fundamentals

Bur:

I think you’re completely right.  I think it’s liberal in theory we have the ability to be liberal here but we don’t act on liberalism.  In Portland we isolate ourselves in a buble light community and diverse.  I realized today that everyone around me today was white and these are issues that we need to  talk about

P: Do you think it arrises froma  lack of civil education?

Bur: I think it arrises from easiness.

Q: I think one of the problems along the west coast – is that it’s cool to be liberal.  Portland is an extremely white city but I’m not sure what we do about that.

Bur: I am thinking about Chicago

MID: I live the  north east and there is diversity there and I think that tthis diversity issue is an art world issue.

Q: Diversity of income issues.  People not getting medicare, housing etc. I feel helpless.

Bur: what do we do to set up situations that bring the helpless people together. 

Q: everything in our society spereate us , but we think that it connects us.  Tech talk.  We don’t have neighbourhoods anymore.  Having the mail in ballot on the one hand is positive because it allows someone to participate who might otherwise not – but it also academiczes things.  We no longer have to go places, or do things, pay your bills online.

Q I disagree, it’s not  a productive statement. I talk to people all the time.  We do go places and we can talk to people.  It’s not really useful to complain about the large level when we have the power within ourselves to do something about it.  Tlak to your neighbour, I do. 

Bur: Well I think that this is what the conversation is about.

            It’s just as useful to discuss some of the items that hold people back. It’s very easy to say well I do this and I do that and why doesn’t everyonelese do this.

Q: Well I talk to my neighbours too, but they don’t tlak to each other.  There is a culture of fear.  How do we incite people to get active.

BS:  One thing we need to do is demonstrate to people that they are not alone, Portland Bus project does this, go to other parts of the state.

Q: what your talking about in terms of action, or arbitrary form of involvement are very pety forms of collective activity.  There is a lot of distancing in the chain of production.  Just to suggest that talking to each other is collective … compaired to other more trad forms of collective action.

Bur: but there are varying degrees.  Maybe just applaud what you feel you’re good at go out and do it.

BS: and I would sugest that electing a --- that will do something about the lack heath isurance in Portland

Q:  I would suggest that the mialase is a result of the corporate take over of the government.  But in Portland we do have opurtunities, in my neighbourhood we grow food together.

Bur: I think that’s a very good thing but I think one other problem , ….. it gets back to the fact that Portland is liberal. What if I don’t like growing things?

But isn’t this a conversation of liberal….

But really when you talk about environments that have diversity – they are not designed, they are messy and the lack of coherence is inviting.  This type of liberal elitism – we have the upper ground because we think better than everyone else, and we should live a certin way.

P; despite the fact that one might feel that Portland is liberal isn’t the frustration – a much larger world . 

Bur: we’re fracturalizing the entire country.

It’s an urban suburban devide.

BS: Despite the liberal elitism of it I would encourage people   to continue to talk to the neighbourhoods.

MID: Portland has other probs that as a liberal city – school funding and air pollution.

Q: The diffcult social work that needs to be done is a real pain in the ass – but statistically we do less of it here in Portland such as volunteering in the schools. 

Q: I wanted to address our Panamericanism – our involvement in the world. I am amazed in talking to my own children the lack of understanding of our neighbours, the lack of curiosity, lack of understanding of history.

Bur: I think as much as these are world problems – these are world decisions. It’s always America’s fault we need to realize that this a world problem and the world needs to do soemthng about it.

Q: the result of how we were raised. Not being exposed to the world by baby boomers.

Q: must give the childa book or they won’t know that it exists.

            Most of the people I know consider warm countries a beach to visit and a culture to explore.

Consumption.

P: how much are we willing to give up in order to get involved?

Bur: Not very much?

P: How far will you go?

mid: I don’t think being an artist is any kind of offering to anything.  I don’t think being an artist has any kind of meaning at all.

Bur: I second that – it’s just a job.

mid: I thnk any profession has the potential to engage in civic and political meaning but in America we don’t emphasize this.  And I think this is a growing view .

q: I wanted to suggest that we shouldn’t look for unitary form of global existence/direction. All of us are making changes right now in a multiplicity or differences.

Bur: unprecedented technological age – we can’t align ourselves with these changes, it plays a part in the general malaise

Harold: I am saying that artists are no different – you can’t ascribe value to being an artist.

P: in American there is a clear difference – a very close association with entertain ment and art.  Should underscore that art can say things.

Harold: I remember – in grad school I thought it was pointless.   and I began to apply social methods to my art.

Q: one of the characteristics of fine arts in this country is that it’s esoteric and imcomprehensible.  Art is marginalized.

Bur: art is the ability to ignite meaning .

American Idol = people vote on it every night – and it is a sense of community. 

Bur: I never know what to think about American idol. Myabe we tend to think as individuals that we can only have one interest.

Q:a rt follows culture but it dosen’t lead it.  The value of art is related to the value of discourse in the society. 

But I think of you started that as many people would watch American idol – I don’t think they’d have any less viewers.

Q: but it’s the level of discourse –

What do you mean by that level?

Q: why do certin things such as quiche and action movies doe beter – it’s a relfection of society.

I wanted to point out that American idol is a notion of commerce.

P: a lot of community art is praised just because it builds a community – but for some people this is not enough – perhaps this conversation is leading towards a need for criticality.  What time of community are we buidiing?

Q I tend to agree with you- I stoped painting. 

Bur: But it can have as much social resonance as a plumber – to say that art is no different than a plumber is not to downgrade the plumber but to acknowledge the value of both.

Q: artists go to jail – in areas of latin America and peru – and people of all ages would hit the street with a lot to lose.  I was thrilled when 2 weeks ago we had the march here in portalnd. We’re not vocal about what we do – and it’s a huge pity.

Bur: I think that’s endemic of the political history of the US – individualist ideas. 

Q: where the ethos is not what everyone can get for themselves.

In my view there is a different between art and entertainment.  I think that certin films are trying to say thnings and some items are for the entertainment value. 

P: What type of art with participation can bring some action?

Q; I think that this city is missing a cultural centre.  One of the things that was mentioned was family history and community.  This is a bout culture – this is about sharing.  I worked on a project called Jump town. – attempting to purchase a building – relying on the history of the jaz community.

The triagngular plot called the dude ranch

Q: All the stats state that young people don’t vote – but they volunteer-  these two parties are corporations.  We are stuck with in capitalism. Moments in American history when art and politics come together – civil rights movements – the better half of American – - who kept this going? they were like the people in peru – killed for what they believe in.

Bur: I think the thing that a lot of the time . It can be incredibly potical to go to a soccer game.  White sox – affordable – can’t say that sports are not good we cannot say this si good and this is bad. 

Q: I wanted to ask what people thought about the keep Portland weird bumper stickers.

Q: a lot of people don’t like that bumper sticker – liberal guilt – art has a lot of tools to encourage people to laugh. – I don’t want to get stuck on the serious liberal guilt side of things.

Q and you don’t think that’s nostalgic?

Bur: but there’s something in nostalga that can be a useful tool.

Q people are coming here because it is open and accepting.  – open to gender roles, dif types of families – frontier ethics – a western and an American idea – something that is very ingrained in Portland culture and American culture.

Q: I was just wondering what other people think about these problems – part of this project is not to talk about ourselves.

P: a lot of questions of the role of art in politics.  Real estate, the role of the economy and the role of art in the picture. 

Q: economy question – paying back the fees of school – huge debt and ecomnomic burden – how people can realistically create political art – once in debt. 

mid: There are lots of schools that you can go to that are free – but even once you’re done that to make money as an artist there are limited options.  It’s a ridiculus enterprise – that people are being trained to do in the united states.

Q: what are some of those things?

mid:

p: in many places in the Americas there are no art schools – the great thing about that is that people become involved for genuine situations.

Q: Oregon is the 49th of 50th states in arts funding.

Q: it’s not a place to stop – how do we value it more? The one thing that I struggle with a lot is what are we willing to sacarafice?

What motivates us without a crisis? We don’t experience crisis and then we won’t be motivated.

P: getting close to wrapping up the evening.

The more that we can be informed that we are in crisis

There is a very effective campagne for hepatitis C  in New York.

BS: it should be fun – community involvement should be fun. I think we also need mediating rganizations – they are a little messy – empowering volunteers. Asking them for ideas and creating messy mediating devices.

Q: politics are so boring in this country  .